Tuesday, 6 January 2009

Replying to the Animal Libbers: man is not a beast but made in God's image

I have been replying to an Anglican who claims that animal liberationism is Biblical and who criticises the Catholic Church for not being interested in rights.

Once again, we see the image of Satan trying to get Christians to accept beliefs that are fundamentally opposed to Christianity and to pretend that there is no difference between them and Christian beliefs. Thus does the Father of Lies work.

Between radical Animal Liberationism and God there can never be any compromise because they are utterly opposed to each other. God is truth and love; animal liberationism is an attempt to turn man into a beast.

Here's what I wrote to him:

"There is always something peculiarly odious about an Anglican attempting to lecture Catholics about human rights, especially when one considers the utterly appalling – nay, near-satanic – abuse by Anglicans of the human rights of Roman Catholics that has been, for most of its history, one of the primary hallmarks and dirty little secrets of the Anglican Church.

For sheer hypocrisy there are few things as rank as Anglican hypocrisy toward Catholics and especially on the issue of human rights.

Some of the most odious penal laws ever then invented to oppress Christian men were devised by an Anglican Parliament for the ill-treatment of British and Irish Roman Catholics.

They included, among others: 25 Henr. VIII c.22 (1534); 26 Henr. VIII c.1 (1534); 1 Eliz. I c.1 (1559); 1 Eliz. I c.2 (1559); 13 Eliz. I c.1 (1571); 13 Eliz. I c.2 (1571); 23 Eliz. I c.1 (1581); 27 Eliz. I c.2 (1585); 1 Jac. I c.4 (1604); 3 & 4 Jac. I c.4 (1606); 3 & 4 Jac. I c.5 (1606); 3 Carol. I c.2 (1628).

King Henry VIII, the wife-murdering founder of the Church of England who was the first to bring in horrific laws persecuting Catholics and depriving them of their human rights

Thereafter, came the Test and Corporation Acts.

The Corporation Act of 1661 required that, besides taking the Oath of Supremacy, all members of corporations were within one year after election to receive the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper according to the rites of the Church of England.

This act was followed by the Test Act of 1673 (the full title of which is “An act for preventing dangers which may happen from popish recusants”).

This act enforced upon all persons filling any office, civil or military, the obligation of taking the oaths of supremacy and allegiance and subscribing to a declaration against transubstantiation and also of receiving the Anglican sacrament within three months after admittance to office.

Catholics were thus precluded from holding any kind of public office, in the state, in the law, in the Services, in the Universities, even as Schoolmasters, both by reason of their being Catholics and also by reason of such office-holders having to swear an anti-Catholic oath.

At that time the Penal Laws against Catholics meant that those who did not attend the services of the Church of England every week and take the Anglican Communion 3 times a year were guilty of “recusancy” and were to be fined either £20 a month (a vast sum then) or 2/3rd of their income as the government chose.

This was a requirement most offensive to the consciences of Catholics who were only permitted to receive the Catholic Holy Communion and were, in conscience, forbidden to attend the services of non-Catholic churches.

Furthermore, it was felony to attend the Catholic mass and Catholic priests and those who sheltered them were to be hanged until half dead, then, while still alive, gutted from the genitals to the rib-cage and their internal organs removed and burnt before their eyes, their hearts being ripped out last and held up to the gaze of a blood-thirsty crowd, and then, finally, the lifeless body cut into four parts and displayed on pikes on the city gates or elsewhere.

It was a most disgustingly brutal and savage punishment deliberately preserved and made use of by the very Anglicans who claimed to be opposed to “cruel and unusual punishments”.

Utter, utter hypocrisy and cruelty of the most disgusting, foul and bloody kind.

No-one coming from this Church tradition has any business lecturing anybody else about human rights.

And yet with wonderful hypocrisy you write: “the Catholic Church... has a reputation for opposing humanitarian, progressive movements throughout history – merciful progressive causes such as slavery et alia, now animals”.

Actually, when Anglicans and other Protestants were still arguing in favour of human slavery and the slave trade, the Catholic Church had long since condemned it.

See my posts at:



The Rev Cotton Mather, a Protestant, referred to black people as “Adam’s degenerate seed” and Anglicans in large numbers were profiting from the slave trade. Even Gladstone inherited a fortune made from slaving.

But you Anglicans always have a way of going about with your eyes shut to truths that you do not like.

Actually, the Catholic Church has long since earned a reputation for being a champion of real human rights.

It is the Anglican Church which has an odious and tainted reputation for grossly ignoring the human rights of others and for spilling oceans of innocent human blood.

Try reading William Cobbett’s savage indictment of the Anglican oppression of minorities, Catholics and the poor in
A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland.

And Cobbett was himself an Anglican, so he cannot be accused of bias.

Frankly Catholics and others are no longer interested in the tired old lies and hypocrisy exhibited by all too many Anglicans.

So you will forgive us if we take your talk of human rights, compassion and care with a very large mountain of salt!

Your claim to go with Abraham Lincoln does not help you either.

Abraham Lincoln was an unbeliever who planned to expel all blacks from America

Since the 1840s Lincoln had been an advocate of the American Colonization Society program of colonizing blacks in Liberia. See his 1854 speech in Illinois.

Lincoln appointed the Protestant Minister, Rev James Mitchell, as his Commissioner of Emigration to oversee colonization projects from 1861 to 1865.

Between 1861 and 1862 Lincoln actively negotiated contracts with businessmen to colonize freed Blacks in Panama and on a small island off the coast of Haiti.

The Haiti plan collapsed in 1862 and 1863 after swindling by the business agents responsible for the plan, prompting Lincoln to send ships to retrieve the colonists.

The much larger Panama contract fell through in 1863 after the government of Catholic Colombia backed away from the deal and expressed hostility to colonization schemes.

In 1862 Lincoln also convened a colonization conference at the White House where he addressed a group of freedmen and attempted to convince them of supporting his policy.

Despite the setbacks in Panama and Haiti, Lincoln discussed plans to renew his push for colonization during his second term.

About a week before the assassination, Maj-Gen Benjamin F. Butler recalls a meeting with Lincoln at the White House, in which Lincoln asked him "But what shall we do with the negroes after they are free?".

He then asked Butler to consult Secretary of State William H. Seward and devise a colonization program for Panama.

Butler would oversee the transfer beginning with the deployment of the United States Coloured Troops to the isthmus, where they would be employed digging a Panama Canal.

So much for the “great” Abraham Lincoln. In fact, Lincoln was no Christian but a self-confessed unbeliever.

If you are an animal liberationist and pro-life then you also oppose the euthanasia of animals, including fleas, pests, poisonous animals and other dangers to human life.

That is plainly ridiculous in which case, if you are honest with yourself, your position is either inconsistent or else not pro-life.

The quality of your mercy is indeed highly selective.

Your next deception is to claim – without any evidence – that Hitler was not a vegetarian.

The fact is that he was not only a vegetarian, he was also an animal liberationist.

Go to this post on my site and you can see for yourself how wrong you are:


So cut the cackle, Barry, and face the facts.

It may be inconvenient for you that Hitler was a veggie in principle and an animal-libber but truth does not become false merely because it is inconvenient.

Hitler did rarely and hypocritically eat meat but so do many moderns who call themselves vegetarians. Hypocrisy among vegetarians (or Nazis for that matter) is nothing new.

Another Animal rights loony who wanted to change the world his way

Your Scripture quotes are also a mendacious deception.

You mention Gen 1:29-30 but omit verses 26-28 which say:

“26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. 27 And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, saying: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and all living creatures that move upon the earth.”

Plain as a pikestaff! Animals are under man’s dominion, Barry. And Man was made in the image of God but no mention of animals being so made.

Isaiah 11:6-9 (“the lion shall lie down with the lamb) is a reference to heaven and the new earth at the end of time since – plainly – the lion does NOT currently lie down with the lamb but instead eats it.

Revelation 5 is also about heaven and the new earth but – please note – it also talks about the “lamb that was slain” which is both Christ and the Passover lamb. No Passover lamb – no Christ. The eating of meat was central to the religion of the Jews. No veggies they!

Proverbs 12:10 confers no rights upon animals but merely enjoins the just man to regard his beasts i.e. to tend them so that they can later be used for food and –arguably – not to be unnecessarily cruel to them. But that is an obligation upon humanity for man’s own good – not because the animal has any “rights”.

Genesis 9 says the opposite of what you say:

“And God blessed Noah and his sons. And he said to them: Increase and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 And let the fear and dread of you be upon all the beasts of the earth, and upon all the fowls of the air, and all that move upon the earth: all the fishes of the sea are delivered into your hand. 3 And every thing that moveth and liveth shall be meat for you: even as the green herbs have I delivered them all to you: 4 Saving that flesh with blood you shall not eat.”

“Everything that moveth and liveth shall be meat to you” – what could be clearer?

Jews follow the Old Testament and are happy to eat meat

The only flesh that cannot be eaten is flesh with the blood still in it which, as we know, is what orthodox Jews and Moslems continue to do to this day in Kosher and Halal kitchens.

But note this, Barry: THEY STILL EAT MEAT.

Got it?

Animals are not merely “companions” for men. A true companion for man must be another being with a rational soul e.g. other men, angels or God. Animals are for man’s “use”.

It is quite clear even from your own quotes from the Bible that animals were made for man’s use. Yet you still claim that you “go with the Bible”. Sorry, Barry, but you just don’t.

Romans 8:19-23 does not confer any rights upon animals it merely says that corruption shall cease in heaven. That is hardly surprising since there can be no corruption (i.e. death and decay) in heaven, even of animals.

Your chatter about Greek influences on Aquinas shows how little you know him or his work since the greatest influence on him is Scripture and the teaching of the Church.

The only thing you are right about is that the current concept and terminology of human rights isn’t old or Biblical but based upon secular values brought in by the Enlightenment 200 years ago.

You are also correct to say that for a Christian “rights are rooted in God’s creation of us, His sustenance, redemption and concern for our welfare”.

But this is not only for Christians.

This is the meaning of the phrase “the Natural Law”. It is a law of God that is written in the hearts of all men, including those who are not Christian. It is a creation ordinance for men e.g. like not doing murder.

You go wrong in the very next sentence when you say “but all this also applies to animals”.

Says who?

No-one except the loony animal liberationists.

You have no Scriptural, doctrinal or any other Christian authority for your additional claim, at all.

None whatsoever.

It’s baloney.

Not only that, it is baloney that came in with the Enlightenment – the very secular values that you claim to repudiate.

You write: “We are made in the image of God, which means we should behave better”.

Better than what?

Better than animals?

Ah, so they are NOT made in the “image of God” then? Well, then, they are inferior.

On the other hand, if you say they ARE made in the “image of God” then why should we behave better than them when, by your own analogy, they should also behave “better” for the same reason.

But, of course, they don't. They brutally savage each other, kill each other, rip each other up and eat each other, every day.

It is customary to refer to a brutal or savage person as "an animal" indicating that they are behaving like a mere beast instead of a man and that the two are fundamentally different in kind and character and soul.

Your whole argument is an illogical non-sequitur from beginning to end.

It is also totally, completely and radically unbiblical.

Indeed, it is a reversion to that savage, cruel heathenism in which men behaved like animals and treated each other like animals because they thought of themselves as mere animals.

The sad reality is that it is loony animal liberationists like Hitler who have often been the biggest disaster for mankind and for creation.

Is that the destination you really want to travel to?

Take care – you will certainly find Hell at the end of it".

Cronos devouring his children. Francisco de Goya (1746-1828).
If we are all animals and animal eat each other, then shall we be returning to the Greek "god" Cronos who ate his own children? Cronos was the leader and the youngest of the first generation of Titans, divine descendants of Gaia, the earth, and Ouranos, the sky. Jealous of his own children Cronos ate them. Animals sometimes eat their own children, too. Men who eat men are called "cannibals" and are regarded with horror by civilisation and civilised society.



Anonymous said...

I see that Boris Johnson, the new London Mayor wants Latin to be taught in all London schools. However I would prefer Esperanto on the basis that it helps all language learning.

Five British schools have introduced Esperanto in order to test its propaedeutic values. The pilot project is being monitored by the University of Manchester and the initial encouraging results can be seen at http://www.springboard2languages.org/Summary%20of%20evaluation,%20S2L%20Phase%201.pdf
You might also like to see http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8837438938991452670

Pope Benedict also used this language this year in his Urbi et Orbi address from the Vatican, at Christmas.

If you have time can I ask you to visit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YHALnLV9XU and a glimpse of Esperanto can be seen at http://www.lernu.net

Barry Miles said...

As the Anglican referred to in your latest post, and with my message not available on your site, I would say I do not attempt to defend the misdoings of the Anglican Church any more than I would the R.C. Church's. I did write that the RC Church was not alone historically in resisting compassionate movements. But your original piece was written from an RC perspective, which is why I made comments about it. My key point was that we need to learn from our past mistakes in our approach to today's compassionate movements. I am a critic too of my own church when the context demands it. The fact is that ours are the two Churches that at various times and places have held the strings of power and have therefore had the opportunity to misuse them.

My comments seem to make you angry, judging by your current blog, and I do not therefore think the conditions are right for further profitable discussion, so I will leave it there. I will just say goodbye by wishing for you what I wish for myself: to be merciful and compassionate to all who are capable of suffering, whatever their status, and to receive mercy and compassion in my turn when I need it.


Barry Miles

Tribunus said...

Dear Barry Miles,

If you read the original site on which you posted you will see that I have reproduced your letter in full.

Your current reply answers the points I have made even less than your original post.

If you are unwilling to defend your views with arguments, evidence and reason, then you can hardly expect anyone to accept them.

The reality is that the animal liberation movement is not at all a compassionate movement as can be seen, firstly, from the nature of its arguments and, secondly, by the acts of terrorism with which many of its partisans are willing to engage.

Poisoning baby food in a supermarket is a pretty bizarre form of "compassion".

But the real problem is philosophical: the movement pretends that there is no difference between animals and humans.

That way lies the kind of hellish social experiment which can reasonably be compared with the worst of tyrants and totalitarians.

It is perhaps surprising that anyone calling himself a Christian should ever contemplate supporting such an appalling prospect but, as I pointed out fully in my post, the history of Anglican oppression does not fill one with much confidence in the ability of that communion to support genuine human rights and compassion.

When it comes to compassion and defence of human rights, the Catholic Church is streets ahead of the Anglican communion.

The Catholic Church has a record second to no other belief-system in supporting human rights and compassion, however much some bad Catholics have failed to live up to the standards required by their Church.

You cannot even gainsay the fact that whilst the Catholic Church consistently condemned the slave trade, the Anglican Church largely refused to condemn it.

Fortunately, there were at least some Anglicans with a conscience like William Wilberforce who, in the teeth of strident opposition from his own communion, had the courage and faith to fight the evil trade.

It is therefore a particularly comical species of humbug for any Anglican to try to criticise the Catholic Church on the score of human rights!

But it is quite clear from your reply that you have not even bothered to look up the supporting facts that I supplied you.

I encourage you to do so.

The sad, but real, truth is that the animal liberationist position is indeed comparable with odious and inhumane ideologies such as Nazism - ideas that any sane or humane person would run a mile from.

Fred Preuss said...

Over here, Coleman McCarthy and John Dear, S.J. (both catholic) and Sister Joan Chitister claim that catholics should abstain from meat as part of their faith and that the apostles were vegetarians.

Fred Preuss said...

Seriously, the PETA/Animal 'Liberation' people are deeply disturbing.
What's really scary is that there are animal 'rights' clubs/societies on most college campuses in North America.
Science gets attacked by the anti-evolutionists from the 'right' and 'Votes for Vermin' nuts on the 'left'.
Crazy world.

Tribunus said...

Dear Fred,

Welcome back.

Sr Chittister is a completely bogus Catholic.

I agree with you about the "Votes for Vermin" but not Evolutionism.

The real Right Wingers are those atheistic evolutionists who say that man is only an animal because he evolved from animals.

These Right Wingers thus have a lot in common with the "Votes for Vermin" Animal Libbers.

It is no accident that many atheistic evolutionists are also Animal Libbers.

The only answer is to recognise that God made man in His own image and likeness, with free will and a rational soul and that man is intrinsically different from an animal.

Failure to acknowledge this has led to appalling results in the past (Nazism, Stalinism) and can do so again in the future.

So keep eating meat!


Tribunus said...

Dear Brian Barker,

I'm afraid Esperanto is virtually a dead duck.

The only language that has a mite of a chance of being a universal language is Latin but it has been long abandoned by secular society, sadly.

Did you know that the Hungarian Parliament continued to conduct its debates in Latin well into the 19th century?

Anonymous said...

loved your pictures, excellent post as usual. Poor Barry has mistaken your usual distemper for anger. I do hope he picks up Cobbett though. It is hard to find true history when all you have been fed for hundreds of years is a web of lies. Cobbett is refreshing in that he has a completely practical approach to discerning the truth. Shocking book, very enjoyable and a must read for everyone I would say. I hope Barry appreciates true charity and picks up a copy.
God Bless

Ma Tucker

Fred Preuss said...

Since you have to eat fish on Fridays, please be advised that PETA has renamed fish "sea kittens" and is gearing up a campaign to get kids in the US to stop eating fish sticks at school lunches.

Tribunus said...

Thanks, Ma! I appreciate your comments.

Tribunus said...

Dear Fred,
Thanks for info.
We don't have to eat anything on Fridays - we are asked to refrain from eating flesh-meat as a sign of remembrance of the Crucifixion. We can eat fish or vegetables or dairy products. The rules have been slackened considerably since the time of Pope Paul VI.
The Greeks have much stricter rules.
I agree with you about PETA. It is clearly an organisation of dangerous loons.

Anonymous said...

You were wrong about Cronos. He was scared of his children. He was fated to be over ruled by them, so he ate them as so they couldnt over rule him.
And he was a god. So anything he did that was out of place was forseen as wrong.
What would you do in that place? They are immortal. You cant just kill them. GOD *pun not intended*

So as I was saying. He didnt eat them, he swallowed them whole. So you are worng on many accounts. And dont you dare call ME wrong. I am doing a report on this. . .


Tribunus said...

You're wrong.

Any other irrelevant side issues you plan to be wrong about?